GPPR Podcast Editor Kharl Reynado (MPP ’23) spoke with Amy Antioho, the widow of Peter Antioho, an Army Officer who passed away after exposure to burn pits during his military service, and their VA benefits attorney, Cindy Johnson, Deputy Director of the Connecticut Veterans Legal Center (CVLC), about what the PACT Act is and what it means for veterans and their families.
Amy walks listeners through her nearly year-long experience applying for initial disability benefits for Peter after he was diagnosed with brain cancer. After multiple denials and stacks of VA forms and medical papers, she reached out to Cindy at the CVLC for help. Cindy discusses the challenges veterans can face when they submit a VA disability benefit claim and the features in the PACT Act that hope to ease those burdens for veterans exposed to toxics during their military service.
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“The damage is done. Unfortunately, there are far too many that are going to be suffering from just disgusting, horrible illnesses. But if the PACT Act that was just passed can help a few of them, even just one, is what I say. Even just one can have the hope of saying, ‘Okay, well, at least I don’t have to also fight the VA.’”
Amy Antioho (pictured to the left with her son, Mark, at the U.S. Capitol)
“Ask for help. Everybody should ask for some help. And if you don’t like the person who’s trying to help you, ask somebody else … These are benefits [veterans] are entitled to. You are not begging for anything. You are just informing the VA that you are ready to receive what you are entitled to receive. That’s it.”
Cindy Johnson (right)
[Episode starts]
Amy Antioho: Peter, you know, while he didn’t die on the battlefield, while he was not killed in action, he gave his life for his country. And I tell Mark, our son, I say, “Daddy is a hero.”
Kharl Reynado: On August 10th, 2022, President Joe Biden signed the PACT Act. The Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson Honoring our Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics Act. Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics is what PACT stands for. Among many things, the PACT Act expands access to Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) health care services for veterans exposed to toxics during their military service. But why is the PACT Act so important? Why did veterans need it? To learn more about this landmark legislation and what it means, I spoke to Amy Antioho about her experiences navigating the VA for her husband, Peter Antioho, and their VA benefits attorney, Cindy Johnson, who has seen hundreds of cases through the VA as the deputy director of the Connecticut Veterans Legal Center or CVLC. My name is Kharl Reynado and you’re listening to the Georgetown Public Policy Review Podcast. I hope you enjoy our conversation.
Antioho: My name is Amy Antioho. And I am a widow of an army officer. His name was Peter Antioho. He was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, glioblastoma multiforme, in February 2018. And through a series of unfortunate events, we were able to trace it in a roundabout way back to his time serving in Afghanistan. And I came to the CVLC for help in getting a claim approved that really should have been from the get-go, in order to get Peter the benefits that he earned, that he deserved. And it was a horrible process with both watching him die and knowing what was coming, as well as being told, “No, you can’t have benefits. You have to prove it.” So, my hope in sharing our story is that other families will not have to do that fight. The damage is done. Unfortunately, there are far too many that are going to be suffering from just disgusting, horrible illnesses. But if the PACT Act that was just passed can help a few of them, even just one, is what I say. Even just one can have the hope of saying, “Okay, well, at least I don’t have to also fight the VA.”
Cindy Johnson: So I am Cindy Johnson. I’m the deputy director of Connecticut Veterans Legal Center. I’ve been working on VA cases similar to Peter Antioho’s for over ten years. I work at a medical-legal partnership, which means we work primarily, but not exclusively with veterans who are referred to us by the VA or their mental health clinicians.
Reynado: Welcome, Cindy and, welcome, Amy to the podcast. To start, Cindy, can you give us a rundown about what the PACT Act is and what it does?
Johnson: The PACT Act is a landmark legislation that was recently passed after a little bit of a skirmish, but it got over the finish line. It does a lot. It expands and extends eligibility to veterans in several different areas. One: Vietnam era veterans. It expands the types of disabilities that are going to be presumed service connection. And more importantly, it expands the locations so that a veteran doesn’t have such a burden to prove that they were exposed to Agent Orange. It also expands the big work that it’s done, which is the work inspired by cases such as Peter Antioho’s, was burn pit presumptions. So, people who were exposed in Afghanistan and Iraq and other locations to the residuals from burn pits, and that residuals has caused tremendous diseases. Some respiratory diseases and some brain cancers have an easier path through the disability process and to obtaining disability benefits. One of the big things it did around Camp Lejeune, which is another area where people are exposed to carcinogens. If you served in that specific marine base in between two specific dates, somewhere in the sixties, up to the eighties, you were exposed to carcinogens in the water supply system and this opened it up to family members who were on base can now sue the government for their disabilities. Veterans have some additional lawsuit capabilities there, too.
Johnson: In addition to all of that, there is now a registry. So if you’ve been exposed to any of these toxins while during your service, including, there’s a little bit about radiation exposure as well for veterans who served in the post in the Cold War period, you can register with the VA. They will monitor your health, monitor what you were exposed to. And then better, the purpose of these registries is so that they can determine what other diseases that they haven’t yet identified might be due to these exposures and add those to this list and provide better services for veterans. So this is forward looking legislation as well as they’ve added a lot of research to be done in order to serve veterans better in the future.
Reynado: Let’s take a step back and look at what the process was like before the PACT Act. Amy tells us about her experience getting Peter military service-connected disability benefits from the VA. Their story starts way before either Peter or Amy met Cindy or CVLC. In February of 2018, Peter first found himself in the hospital for what would later be diagnosed as glioblastoma multiforme, a form of brain cancer.
Antioho: He was separated from active duty, so we didn’t even think of a military connection for the brain cancer. It wasn’t until I ran into a gentleman in the waiting area of the radiation department whose son was also receiving radiation for a brain tumor and was a young veteran that he said, “You need to go to the VA.” Peter didn’t want to because he said, “No, we’re not going to beg.” I said, “We’re not begging. You deserve this. And if it is connected, then we need to make sure that they take responsibility first and foremost.” In doing that and going to the VA and saying, “Okay, we need to set up the health care. We need to file this claim.” I met more and more people who had the exact same cancer as Peter. It was then that I was like, “This cannot be a coincidence.”
Reynado: So, you and Peter decided that you were going to submit a VA benefits claim. What did you do first?
Antioho: Step one was go to the Hartford Regional Office, which is in the same building as the VA health care center, which is very confusing if you’re a mere civilian because it’s on the fourth floor, but it’s a totally separate entity — two heads of a beast. The VA means two different things to health care, and I’d like to shout that out as well. The health care workers of the VA are phenomenal. So when people say the VA sucks, it’s not them. They deserve credit because they are amazing. The VA benefits, however, has some growing and maturing to do. Ultimately, we were kind of just pushed up there and we sat down with someone who was doing the best they could but was overworked and understaffed. And she helped us write a brief, very brief summation of, “I think I have cancer because I served in Afghanistan.” Boom, that was pretty much it.
Antioho: So that claim was denied and the process of finding out it was denied was also quite frustrating and took a very long time because it took me reaching out to several people and then someone said, “Well, who’s your VSO?” And I said, “What’s a VSO?” That’s a veteran service officer, which at the Hartford Regional Office, I supposedly should have been told, “You can file this claim with a VSO, and they can represent you and they will help you gather the evidence. They will help you submit it.” So I said, “Okay, let’s go get us a VSO.” And we did. Again, this gentleman, I believe he did his best to his own personal capabilities. But again, the overworked, understaffed factor was definitely present.
Antioho: I would ask him, you know, “Did we get a reply? Did we get a reply?” So it took a lot of follow up. It was a full-time job and I was also full time taking care of Peter, who was unable to work, to drive, to pretty much do anything himself. And this is someone who he was a West Point grad, he was an Army officer, very independent, and was suddenly 100% dependent on his wife. And we had a two-year-old at the time, so I was also a full time mom. I gathered as much evidence as I could once we got the first denial because they basically said, “Nope, sorry, you’re denied. Prove it.” And I remember thinking and I still think, “Why is that burden on us?” Prove he was in Afghanistan. Prove he was exposed to burn pits. Prove that burn pits can cause cancer. Prove that there’s a scientific and medical nexus between these two things. And I did research and I found out what we needed to do. We wrote statements in support of claim, you know, that dreaded form that I wrote like 10,000 of and reached out to his former battle buddies, his former commanders, who all were amazing in writing these statements. Peter was mortified. He hated that we had to do this. Again, he used that word — begging.
Antioho: But in gathering all this evidence, I learned a lot more about what he went through. It was informative. It was devastating. It was heartbreaking. But I also began to see more and more that there was this connection. One of the things that the PACT helps with that I am familiar with is providing these nexus exams. Peter had to go and see a compensation and pension doctor through the VA. Comp and pen exam. He went to see a neurologist who evaluated him for a TBI and didn’t ask any questions about the brain cancer. When that opinion came back, which is what supposedly the decision is based upon, it came back and said, “Well, this guy said, ‘It’s not linked, so it’s not linked.’” So, we did more research. We did more. We talked to more doctors. We got more evidence. And I found a link.
Antioho: I found an actual link with depleted uranium as well as there are chemicals emitted from plastic water bottles when you burn them, which is, that’s all they drink over. There’s the plastic water bottles because otherwise you can get really sick. But then what do you do with them? They burn them. That emits a chemical called vinyl chloride, which has been linked to brain tumors. Bada-bing, bada-boom. It was still denied.
Antioho: There had been a comp and pen exam done without Peter present in which a VA comp and pen doctor looked through and said the magic words: “It is at least as likely as not that Peter’s brain cancer is linked to his toxic exposures while serving in Afghanistan.” And even with that golden ticket from that doctor, it was still denied. And that is when I reached out to CVLC and they said, well I think it was one of the paralegals said, “Could you fax us all of your documents?” And I said, “Well, ma’am, with all due respect, I have about four inches of documents.” So I said, “How about if I drive them to you and hand them to you?” And I remember. I vividly remember getting the call saying, “Okay, they’ll see you.” And I thought, “Good, we’re in.” Yeah. And then we met with Cindy, and Cindy was like, “You did all of the work for us.” And I was like, “Yes, you’re welcome. Now what?”
Reynado: Peter and Amy met Cindy in May of 2019 — 15 months since Peter first found himself in the hospital in February of 2018 and 11 months since Amy and Peter submitted their first claim in June of 2018. Even with Cindy and the Connecticut Veterans Legal Center advocating on Peter and Amy’s behalf, their fight with the VA to get service connection for Peter’s brain cancer was not over. They kept calling Connecticut Senator Richard Blumenthal’s office, asking for help with their case. But it wasn’t until a news story broke that their case really started to move.
Antioho: We ended up speaking to an investigative reporter about the fact that this claim kept getting denied, denied, denied. And we had been working with Senator Blumenthal’s office in Connecticut to say, “Hey, can you help us out? Can you put a congressional flag on this?” Congressional flag meant, hey, you guys should really look at this claim. Does that happen in reality? I don’t think so, because it took me calling Blumenthal’s office and said, “Where are we?” “Oh, just be patient. These things take time.” I said, “I don’t have time. Peter doesn’t have time. He has already outlived his prognosis by double.”
Antioho: An investigative reporter in Connecticut did a beautiful job of summing up kind of the hell we had been through. Suddenly I was being called by Senator Blumenthal to say, “How can we help?” And I said, “Well, Senator Blumenthal, I’m so grateful for your help. I would have loved it a year and a half ago. However, what you can do is make sure that I can spend some time with my husband before he dies.” To his credit, which is why I’m willing to give him credit, he picked up the phone. He called the secretary of the VA. He said, “Make this happen.” And it did. I think it was a combination of all of those things coming together. But when he met up with us, after the claim was finally approved, Peter said to the senator, “It should not take a US senator picking up the phone to make this happen. We need to do better. I’m grateful that we have what we need for now. But there’s so much work left to be done.” And he was right.
Antioho: And unfortunately, in our situation, it wasn’t like, oh, you’re 100% service connected. Now everything’s covered because Peter needed round the clock care at home. We couldn’t afford that, and the VA wouldn’t cover that. There is this kind of again as mere civilians, this common misnomer that veterans are taken care of. Even if you know the ins and outs of a service connection claim and say, “Oh, that’s hundred percent! Great, done, right?” No, not so much. So, we then had to file additional claims for aid and attendance. I mean, down to Cindy, you helped me. It was like all that was left was to say, “Well, he can’t use his right arm and he, you know, is impotent, basically.” And like, “How do you prove it?” I remember Peter saying, “Well, that’s not going to happen.” So that was devastating again for him. So, his mental health was suffering not only because his brain was so damaged, but because of everything that he was going through. Just for us to scrape by, really.
Reynado: Amy and Peter received the notice that their service connection disability claim was approved with a rating of 100% on May 29, 2019 — just over two weeks after the new story was published but nearly one year after they submitted their first VA claim. After the service-connection disability claim was approved, Amy and Cindy submitted claims to obtain aid and attendance benefits to support Peter’s care. Peter’s prognosis was terminal. His physical health and mental health continued to decline. He entered hospice care in July 2020. Peter passed away in September of that year.
Antioho: Peter, while he didn’t die on the battlefield, while he was not killed in action, he gave his life for his country. And I tell Mark, our son, I say, “Daddy is a hero.”
Reynado: Amy and her son Mark were invited to Washington, D.C., to watch the signing of the PACT Act.
Antioho: Classic little kid. We’re sitting in the East Room of the White House watching the president sign this monumental, historic bill into action that means so much to me. And Mark says, “Ugh, come on already!” Because it was just so boring for him. You know, we spoke with Secretary McDonough, the current secretary of the VA, right after the signing, and he bent down and he said, “Mark, your daddy as a hero and thank you so much for your service.” And I was just like, bawling. But and you know, again, Mark’s like, “Okay, thank you.” But that meant a whole heck of a lot to hear, to have it acknowledged, to have it validated.
Johnson: I feel like he should have said, “Your mom is a hero and thank you for your service.” Because you’re the one that did all the hard work around the claim. You know, you were alone fighting that claim for so long. Thankfully to this Act, others do not have to do that.
Antioho: Thank you for saying that. I appreciate that.
Reynado: The signing of the PACT Act at the White House is the culmination of Amy’s work to push for the passage of the bill. She actually helped inform the writing of the legislation by speaking to the office of Kansas Senator Jerry Moran about her experience applying for VA benefits for Peter.
Antioho: In a roundabout way, [I] was connected with Senator Moran of Kansas. He was helping to write the legislation. I was contacted by someone on his legislative team. They reached out to me. We connected. I gave her again. I was like, I have about two giant Tupperware like those Rubbermaid bins full of documents, medicals. I was like, “I’ll, I’ll drive it out to you like, if it helps other people not have to go through this, like, whatever you need.” And she’s like, “Well, could you put together a timeline? And maybe let’s start there.” So, I did.
Antioho: I put together a timeline and it is 19 pages long and it is from the date he was diagnosed to present. I was able to share all of that and she said she never understood the importance of the nexus exam, of that comp and pen exam until she talked to me. A lot of what I learned, too, is there’s this disconnect of people who were diagnosed while they were still active duty then it’s considered a presumptive right. And then it’s and there’s this like presumptive window where if you’re within one year and you get diagnosed, it’s like, “Sure, yeah, we’ll still cover you.” But Peter was just out of that time frame when he was diagnosed. I have this amazing mentor. She’s about ten years out, almost an identical story. But her husband was active duty when he was diagnosed. So she looks at me and she’s like, “You had to do all of that plus, you know, you had to do all –” And she meant all of that, like all of the: have a kid, and he’s dying and taking care of him. And your life is turned upside down. And the VA claim. So that’s the piece where it’s like, talking about this and telling as many people as possible in order to get this law through. If we can take even just a fraction of that stress away, then it’s worth it.
Reynado: Amy and Peter’s story highlights the challenges veterans and their families can face when seeking disability benefits related to exposure to toxics. In Peter’s case, his exposure to toxic burn pits caused his brain cancer. Cindy walks us through more detail about the PACT Act and how a case like Peter’s would go now under these new rules.
Johnson: For sure, we can talk about how that claim went, which was awful, and how it would go now under the PACT Act, like the person who comes next and what their process would look like compared to what Amy and Peter’s process looked like. Basically, I’m going to completely cosign what Amy said. The VA is two different organizations and the medical side is brilliant and those people are fabulous. And they exactly know what they’re doing and they’re wonderful to work with. The benefit side: there are some amazing people there too. It’s just a very large bureaucracy and it gets caught up in trying to be all things to all people and actually getting it wrong. So, when you go through this process, the VA is in theory not an opposing party. They want you to succeed. They want all veterans to get access to the benefits that they’re trying to provide, but they have a tendency to get in their own way, as they did in Amy and Peter’s case.
Johnson: That decision that denied their claim that first time was so ridiculous and poorly written and confusing and long. It was 30 pages of nonsense that Amy had to decipher, try and figure out what the hell they were actually talking about and respond to that. And hopefully that’s the part of this process that the next person won’t have to go through. So in order to get a service connected disability benefit, you have to prove that you have a disability. Obviously, in Peter’s case, that was an easy diagnosis. It was right there. So they didn’t need anything else about that. Diagnosis, done. You have to show to the VA that you have an in-service, an active-duty injury or incident. In Peter’s case, it was exposure to that burn pit and to the depleted uranium while in Afghanistan. Oddly enough, that’s typically so easy. They have the military records. They can see where he was. They know he was exposed. There is a database called POEMS.
Reynado: POEMS stands for the Periodic Occupational and Environmental Monitoring Summary. It is hosted by the Army Public Health Center.
Johnson: And that lists where all the toxins and burn pits and other exposures were. And it’s a really great tool. And where Peter was, was listed there. And that was the appeal we had ready to go when, as Amy said, all the good stuff happened because the reporter was involved, because Senator Blumenthal was involved. There was a denial on the table, and we were ready to do an appeal. And the VA pulled it back and looked at it again without being told, except for by the press and by Blumenthal, and came to the right conclusion without any appeal actually needed. So, it was exactly, as Amy said, this conglomeration of good things coming to support Amy and Peter and finally making a difference.
Johnson: But anyway, so the VA needs a current diagnosis and in-service injury or event, so proving that Peter was in Afghanistan and exposed to burn pit. And then there’s this connection between those two things. That’s where medical evidence comes in handy, and that’s where the PACT Act removes that need for that medical evidence. Now it’s a presumption. You have that diagnosis. You have the exposure. You were either exposed in Camp Lejeune. You were exposed to a burned pit. You were exposed in Vietnam to Agent Orange. That is true. And you have the diagnosis that we know that exposure creates. Now, there’s a presumption that those two things are connected, and you remove some burden of proof.
Reynado: The VA benefits process seems daunting for those who have never done it before. When you’re dealing with a disability, it can be even more challenging to keep up with the demands of paperwork and document requirements. So who else can help?
Johnson: You can start these things on your own and you can be successful. When you have that diagnosis and you have other things taking your attention and priorities, you should find someone to help you with this. A VSO. Any organization. There’s law clinics around the country that are working with veterans. There’s veteran service officers like DAV and others that will help. And the VA itself will try and provide help. And when you get a diagnosis, you should enlist some help. An objective person who can speak VA language and get you to the next step so you can pay attention to the diagnosis you have received and your quality of life and worry about other things other than fighting with the VA. But PACT Act is there hopefully to provide a little bit of help. So, I would reach out to the VA. VA has lists of VSOs. There’s a website that I think is fabulous. It’s called Stateside Legal dot org. And if you put in where you live, they will point you to the nearest clinics that can provide help for you, legal help, and other types of help. DAV. Again, American Legion, they all kind of do the same thing. And they all are going to need help because we’re getting an influx of people who have questions about the PACT Act, and we’re trying to answer those questions.
Reynado: As the VA turns its legislation from an idea to a reality, what do you think are the implementation challenges of the PACT Act?
Johnson: They don’t have enough personnel to handle what’s coming. I don’t think anybody does right now. There’s so many questions. And if the VA is not there and if reputable organizations aren’t there to handle them, then attorneys who are doing this for money or people are going to scam people out of money just for hope. And I hope that doesn’t happen. I hope organizations step up and make sure that people have credible places to go. There are a couple things in the PACT Act that are not perfect. I think one place in the PACT Act that they made a mistake, which I think they could fix, is they’re insisting still on this medical nexus exam. I think that takes time and it’s another place that a mistake could be made. Going back to Peter’s case, he had the diagnosis. They knew he was in Afghanistan and exposed to a burn pit. And as soon as they had that information, that should be it. There is no medical opinion required at that point. The only thing a medical opinion could introduce there is, is what? You know, he got a glioblastoma from a different source. That’s unlikely. We all know where he got it with those two pieces of evidence. And I think they could speed things up by removing this exam entirely.
Reynado: Cindy, you were the attorney for Peter and Amy’s VA case. As you mentioned earlier, you’re also the deputy director of CVLC. Can you tell us more about what CVLC does and what other ways they help veterans?
Johnson: So, we are a medical legal partnership. We’re basically legal aid for veterans who are dealing with mental health issues, homelessness, struggling with their VA benefit claim. How we help is, whereas Amy is a fantastic advocate and was an amazing advocate for Peter and learned a lot in that process, we can apply that same knowledge because we’ve done 500 cases or over 1000 VA benefit cases. So, we take all of that knowledge and apply it to somebody’s case. And I would like to think that all the VSOs do the same thing. So, we know how the VA thinks and we know what form is needed. There’s always a form needed and we can get you through the process faster. The goal would be to get you to the other side of this benefit and receiving the monthly benefits and able to just return to whatever life you have without fighting with the VA and we’ll take that burden hopefully from you.
Johnson: One place we struggle is veterans who received a less than honorable discharge. For all of this to even start, a veteran needs to be considered to the VA to be a veteran. Obviously, Peter is. But there is veterans out there who are received a discharge that is not honorable or the VA terms it as: served under conditions less than honorable. When that happens, all of these doors are actually closed. So, the same conditions could exist. Somebody could be exposed to a burn pit. Somebody can be exposed to contaminated water or Agent Orange, but not entitled to any monetary benefit at all just because of the way they were discharged, even though it’s possibly a death sentence from that exposure. The VA is allowed based on a permission of how they discharged, which is not at all related to that exposure, to say, “No, we will not provide you a monthly benefit and maybe we’ll provide you health care depending on how, what led to your discharge.” And again, these two things are completely typically unrelated. That I find offensive.
Antioho: Well, and I will just add on to that, Cindy, that Peter went and did a couple of like the group sessions and what he gleaned from that because although his brain was failing him, he was still an extremely brilliant man, said, “I think some of these dishonorable discharge situations were because, for example, the cancer was already growing in their brain.” I think that that is something to consider because I know that — I know Peter’s personality changed.
Reynado: CVLC does a lot of work for veterans. You help with civil legal matters of the benefits cases and discharge upgrade cases. Cindy, you have represented hundreds of veterans during your career. Can you share another case where you represented another veteran exposed to environmental hazards, toxic waste or burn pits?
Johnson: We had a veteran that we represented right after Peter. And it was because of, I saw everything that you had done on behalf of Peter that we took on the next case. His name was Craig Rosen. And glioblastoma. He had served in the army, was exposed to burn pits. And we used all the same techniques that you had used on his case, and we had filed what I would consider to be the most perfect appeal with a great letter from his VA doctor, who the neurology team at the VA is amazing. And she knew exactly that the glioblastoma was related to the burn pit, and that’s all we needed because the PACT Act hadn’t existed at the time. And he died a week after the appeal was filed and the appeal died with him.
Johnson: And he was never received the benefits he deserved. There is no way to continue that case without fighting for death benefits now. And that’s what we’re stuck doing. And I hope to God no other veteran has to go through what he went through. He, just like you had said, came out with headaches, you know, and they couldn’t figure out what was wrong with him. They tried everything to diagnose him. It took him a long time to get to: it was brain cancer. Because they weren’t looking for that back then. They didn’t know. And now I’d like to think some of these registries and research in the PACT Act are going to make it easier, because if you go to a doctor at the VA, you say, “Hey, I have a headache and I served in Afghanistan.” They should look at this first and not look at it two years later, after trying everything else. Hopefully they get to these faster.
Antioho: I’m sure you’ve heard this, Cindy, and I heard Peter say it. And then I heard other people that we met on this journey say, “I think the VA is just waiting for me to die.” And that sucks.
Johnson: Yeah. You feel like that a little bit because the PACT Act added this is one thing we’ve been pushing for so long, a little off the topic of glioblastoma, but we’ve been waiting for hypertension to be added. We’ve all known for years, including the Secretary of the VA, has known that hypertension is something that Vietnam veterans get from being exposed to Agent Orange. And it’s never been on the presumptive list. And we’ve had cases that we’ve tried to keep open knowing it was coming and it finally came with the PACT Act. But it’s the one thing in the PACT Act that’s not effective or activated until 2026.
Reynado: As of the release of this podcast, the VA Secretary has modified the effective date for the presumptions stated in the legislation to make them all effective the date of passage – August10, 2022.
Reynado: Veterans and their families face challenges in learning about how to apply and how to appeal if their benefit claims are denied. As Amy explained, the three-part requirement to get approval — military service, illness or disability and a nexus — are all major learning challenges for families unfamiliar with VA rules and regulations. The psychological burdens worsen the longer families are denied from getting benefits.
Johnson: The worst part is, you know, they’re going through it sometimes alone.
Antioho: And not only that, but I was — I almost was like having to do it in spite of Peter in a way. For lack of a better term, because there’s this modesty to a fault in most military members I’ve ever met, where it’s like there’s like this survivor’s guilt and there’s this, “I don’t deserve it.” There’s this, as I said before, Peter saying, “I’m begging. I don’t want to feel like I’m begging.” Several people I’ve recently met who say, “Well, this doesn’t apply to me. I served in Vietnam.” So, educating that piece of, “Well, no, it does apply to you. And here’s how to get it.”
Antioho: There’s a stigma to it, unfortunately, much like with the mental health piece. There’s this stigma of, you’re begging for benefits if you apply for something that you earned because of this uphill battle, because of the hoops they make you jump through. There were so many times where I was like, “I just want to give up.” Because that would be easier. But I couldn’t. Peter would say, “Just give up.” And I would say, “No! In that case, definitely not.” I can’t. And a lot I mean, honestly, a lot of it had to do with that we had a kiddo. We had a little boy. And I would say, “What about Mark? You know, like, think about him.” And he’d go, “Okay, good point. Good point.” So I think that that’s a really important piece that I’ve talked with Senator Blumenthal about as well, is this follow through with the VA. This kind of holding them to account for making sure that the expanding the VSOs and the personnel that that — that needs to actually happen. It’s one thing to have it on paper and it’s another to implement it and make sure that there’s this education piece for …
Antioho: I just met someone. He’s a Vietnam veteran, and I linked him up with Cindy. And I’m talking to him, and he’s just like, “Oh, no, no, no. Oh, a lawyer? No, no, no, no, no.” Because of there are those predatory lawyers out there. And he gets calls all the time. “Oh, let me help you.” And he’s just like, “Nope, nope, nope, nope.” And he’s someone who I admire that he actually went to the VA and said, “Could you please help me? I’m sick.” And they said, “Nope.” So now not only is he jaded from that, but he is jaded from these predatory lawyers that have nothing to do with the VA. And he’s also been told no so many times. When I was explaining to him about the PACT Act, he was just like, “That can’t apply to me. There’s no way that applies to me.” Just think that for that long, I can’t even imagine. I just can’t imagine the frustration. So, I think he is extremely courageous for trusting me and trusting the CVLC to say, “All right, let’s give it another shot. Because what do I have to lose at this point,” kind of a thing, but for a lot of people, they have a lot to lose. They have a lot of time to lose because maybe they don’t have time. Like in Peter’s case, we didn’t. I didn’t have time.
Johnson: You need somebody on your side, I think, more than anything else. The VSOs, the VA, all of the legal clinics around the country have a listserv and we share ideas, and we keep each other abreast of what works and what doesn’t work at the VA. Everybody should get somebody to stand by them and help them through this and give them the objective information that they need. Because when it’s your disability, when it’s your claim, it’s so personal that you cannot think clearly, and you need somebody to help you through that process. It’s too much. And when the VA denies your claim, it is so disheartening that you can easily give up and you need somebody there to say, “No. This is just a mistake. We can fix a mistake. We have to go back. Let’s go back. We can fix this.”
Reynado: What is your message for any veteran who is thinking of starting a VA benefits claim but isn’t sure where to start or is apprehensive about the process?
Johnson: Ask for help. Everybody should ask for some help. And if you don’t like the person who’s trying to help you, ask somebody else.
Antioho: If you hear the word no, don’t accept it. If you call and hear, “No, that’s not possible.” Hang up. Call back. Wait on hold for several hours and talk to someone else until you hear the word yes. Because there’s always a way. You earned this. You deserve this. Please go get your benefits and don’t think you’re begging.
Johnson: These are benefits you are entitled to. You are not begging for anything. You are just informing the VA that you are ready to receive what you are entitled to receive. That’s it.
Reynado: Thank you for listening to my conversation with Amy Antioho and Cindy Johnson. Prior to joining the McCourt School, I worked as the Intake Coordinator and Legal Assistant for the Connecticut Veterans Legal Center. Cindy Johnson was my former supervisor. I extend deep thanks to Amy and Cindy for joining me in today’s episode. I hope you learned something new today. Please visit GPPReview.com to learn more about the Georgetown Public Policy Review and check out more podcast episodes. My name is Kharl Reynado. Thank you for tuning in.
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To learn more about the PACT Act, you can check out the White House Fact Sheet and the Department of Veterans Affairs.
To learn more about the Connecticut Veterans Legal Center, visit www.ctveteranslegal.org.
Established in 1995, the Georgetown Public Policy Review is the McCourt School of Public Policy’s nonpartisan, graduate student-run publication. Our mission is to provide an outlet for innovative new thinkers and established policymakers to offer perspectives on the politics and policies that shape our nation and our world.